What is a Real Hero of E-Commerce?

This week I get interviewed by Jason Shepherd, the host of The Real Hero's of E-commerce, a podcast on shopping!

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Transcript

The Real Hero's of e-Commerce

[00:00:00] Miranda Black: I almost didn't get an episode completed this week, but then a small podcast miracle happened and now I do so lemme explain. Last week our house was served a letter from the city of Toronto because our neighbor who has about a 12 foot wide lot 12 feet, it's about. As wide as the reach of a Raptor player. Well, he wants to build a 21 foot house on this 12 foot wide lot. Now, before you say what. 

That's crazy. It is the bylaws as written do not support this build, but he's asking for variances to the bylaws so he can get it wedged in there. And there are some logistical wedgies and some reduction of greenspace wedgies, which will impact the drainage in the area and puts us at more risk of flooding is a big bummer and a big worry. 

But the worst part, the part that really stunned us was that our neighbor didn't put our trees on his site plan. We also have a small lot, but on our small lot, we have seven trees on the boundary Seven 18 foot tall Cedars that span about 17 feet of our small narrow garden. They're spectacular. 

It's a wall of green space, 300 feet of vertical green space to be exact people pay big money for vertical green space. Like And they're the only Cedar Grove in all the backyards on our block for as far as the eye can see from north to south. And that's important because in the winter. These seven trees are the 

only refuge for hundreds of birds in the area. I have pictures of Cardinals, Downy, woodpeckers, purple finches, as well as all the common songbirds. 

We are right downtown Toronto. We could walk to the CN tower. And if you squint, you can sometimes see Drake sitting up there from our backyard. So it was about as urban as you can get. 

And many of these birds are well-known to be shy. But they know this yard. The singing and chirping out there in the winter is really unexpected in such a small urban space. But when you look at the area, it's understandable because it's all they've got. The songbird population in Canada. is in a serious and very troubling decline. I don't want to be a negative Nelly, but in all the bad news on top of bad news this year. You may have missed it when Audubon released a massive decades in the making report that. Since the 1970s, songbirds have declined by 80%. And the reason is. Disappearing habitat. Uh, birds are literally are canaries in the coal mine. They act as indicators of the overall health of the environment. So if the birds are in trouble, 

So are we. Even small habitats like this 300 square foot sanctuary. They're vital to songbirds, especially right now, they are in crisis. So. This is going to sound on brand. I'm fighting to save my trees. 

But I want to do it with science and reason. On this podcast, I really try and strike a reasonable balance with entrepreneurism and sustainability. Income growth with good citizenship. Can I do it with the city of Toronto. Can developers and pink hairs like me negotiate so that all the stakeholders needs are met. 

What would the de-growth diva do? Because I frequently say I want people to live their best lives, but keep nature in mind while doing I'm a huge supporter 

of Toronto increasing its density. There is a housing shortage. People need homes build up, not out. I wrote these slogans. But here's the thing. Our neighbor. The one wanting to build the 21 foot house They're already increasing the size of their main house by adding square footage there. He's already asking for variances to increase the width. 

And the length of that house beyond what the bylaws allow . And he's digging down to get nine foot ceilings for what looks to be a pretty fabulous basement apartment. 

The density is being increased on this lot. But this lot does not need to shoulder all the density. It's like urban sprawl on a micro level. Balance is key, both in how you acquire your goods. How we develop our cities So the fight. Is important and it's fraught. Density versus nature. These trees. They're not only a joy. I spent a ton of time out there watching the birds nest and argue, and I've even watched birds teaching their young to fly out there. But the trees also represent this tiny fight. I'm waging here on my podcast about the importance of small percentages. 

How even minor actions do make a difference. One way or the other. Sacrificing a small slice of something like time. For less of something else, like packaging or convenience. Sacrificing some long held traditions for the sake of wasting less. 

Putting the needs of one yards songbirds over another yards. Desire for an income property. None of these sacrifices are easy because. It's hard for us as humans to see the bigger picture. We just aren't wired that way, I guess. And as a result, we make decisions that aren't good for us in the long run. 

I actually don't have a lot of hope for our trees. The winds of change. Then they are not at our backs right now with a government that just doesn't see the need to protect trees and green space and farmland. It's a bit of a build, build, build situation right now, despite all the evidence pointing to our need for a more balanced approach. This is where we're at. But. I wanted to get on record that here on this spot, seven trees were once the habitat for hundreds of songbirds, I saw you and I fought 

I spent the week learning about drainage and urban areas. The songbird decline. The size of trees, a city will protect and how to communicate. All of this to an emotionless governing body and an emotionless, just the facts. Ma'am way. So I really thought I wouldn't have time to put together an episode for you this week, but then a miracle happened. 

Not the birds. 

Their fate gets decided next week. Don't don't Don. But the podcast for the first time I was asked to be a guest on somebody else's podcast. Jason Shepherd who hosts the real heroes of e-commerce got in touch and asked me to be on his show. He interviews customers, all kinds of customers to gain insight into how people shop and his podcast is a gentle reminder to brands that. 

Customers are the real heroes of retail. It was the first time that I got to be a guest. I got to do most of the talking, which was fun. And after it aired, I let Jason know. How slammed my week was, and this is how supportive the podcasting world is. He sent me his audio file to use it as my podcast. 

And it works because there's a lot of overlap. I talked to business owners, he talks to customers, but we both talked shopping. He's doing Christmas episodes and I get to share some of my favorite gift ideas. It's my wheelhouse. So I do in fact, have something to share with you today. 

All thanks to Jason Shepherd and the real heroes of e-commerce. So who is Miranda black and what is on her Christmas list this year? 

[00:07:40] Jason Shephard: Okay, Miranda,

welcome to the show. 

[00:07:43] Miranda Black: Hi. Really nice to meet you. 

[00:07:45] Jason Shephard: So, I think you're gonna tell us a little bit about yourself, . 

[00:07:49] Miranda Black: Yeah. My name is Miranda Black and I am on Instagram. I'm known as, The de-growth diva. and what that means is that I provide inspiration on how to consume less and use more of the stuff we already have around our house, but still stay cool and stylish and not you know, not just like eating a potato and a burlaps sac kind of thing and, and, you know, kind of being fabulous or whatever.

on your de-growth journey because it just, you know, it doesn't have to be all doom and and gloom.. And the reason I came to this career, is because, I used to own a bricks and mortar store, a clothing store. I closed in 2019 and I love fashion. But because I've been behind the scenes of retail, I really saw firsthand how much that machine, me being the machine mm-hmm.

um, and how much I was kind of tricking and manipulating people into making people think they need more. Really do, right? So now I have a podcast called, What's This Place? And I go behind the scenes of bricks and mortar stores who are doing sustainable businesses, more sustainable type businesses to talk about how they're shifting to a more sustainable business practice.

Or I also talk to businesses. Who that, you know, this kind of business didn't even exist five years ago. Like Zero Waste Grocery stores, Zero waste boutiques, Zero waste beauty stores. And I, at first I was like, What do you mean? How do you, how are you zero waste? Like mm-hmm. , uh, what does that even mean?

So that's how I came to it, because I started interviewing people. I was like, who's doing business in a different way? Like it's obviously we're at a real, Sort of a crossroads or it's a huge confluence of many different things, 

so who's doing business differently and who's surviving through the retail apocalypse and why? And I found that it was businesses who are really doing things differently than sort of the dinosaurs of the, of the past. And such 

as, 

[00:09:58] Jason Shephard: like, what kind of things do they do differently? 

[00:10:00] Miranda Black: Uh, I think trying to find sustainable, and I'm gonna use quotes, air quotes for sustainable, because that can get misused by bigger corporations.

But there are lots of businesses who are who. Really put on the table. I'm getting stuff now made in Toronto. I'm getting, you know, the beauty products are made here so that, that cuts down in the shipping. And I think from my, we're all in our own little bubbles of, of influence, but from my little bubble, I notice that shoppers really respond to that because people are like, you know, Why do I have to have all this packaging?

I'm responsible for throwing it out. My garbage is overflowing. I don't need it. I don't want it, I don't think there's one person who doesn't get frustrated by the tons of plastic packaging that comes in a tiny with the, and then you get the thing out and you're like, Okay. The thing is smaller than the packaging that I just got through.

Mm-hmm. . And so when a store is able to work with their, uh, with their partners, Products that they and they say, Listen, customers aren't really liking this. What are you doing differently? Yes, let's really lean into that. And then customers respond. So, I was unaware of this kind of business 18 months ago.

And now I find that it's like snowballing itself on itself. The more I know, the more people I follow, the more they open my eyes to, Oh, I didn't, I didn't even know about that. There's, uh, . And then also my other aspect of my business is that I'm a sustainable stylist. So I help people transition their wardrobe and you know, to, to a sustainable closet and how to purge responsib responsibly as opposed to just throwing all your stuff in the garbage.

How do you get it out to the people who actually need it? You know, if we have all this stuff and then we're getting rid of it, how do we do that responsibly? So that's the two aspects the podcast. And sustainable stylist. 

[00:11:58] Jason Shephard: I like how you mentioned the customers are also holding onto all this garbage at the end of the, you know, when they get the, all the packaging out.

And this is like, it's a problem that we don't really think about as, as the customer because you do throw it away and it kind of outta sight out of mind. Yeah. 

[00:12:14] Miranda Black: Where does it go? Yeah, 

[00:12:16] Jason Shephard: we don't, But when you Yeah, we don't think about it because it's just a short. , whereas we'd probably be much happier if all the packaging was just, you know, in half or even less than that.

[00:12:26] Miranda Black: Yeah. You know, I, I interviewed my first zero waste grocery store a little bit over a year ago, and I was like, What do you mean zero waste groceries? Like, how do I ? How am I supposed to buy my stuff? I hadn't been to the store, we were still in lockdown. Mm-hmm. . So I hadn't been physically to the store and it's like, It's ingenious because you run outta your soy sauce or you run outta your ketchup, and instead of throwing that thing away, you just wash it out, take it and refill it, and she has.

Everything, you know, from maple syrup to, And so our garbage has been cut in half by shifting to this. And I sometimes, I just think that, ugh, God, if just the huge grocery stores would do that to make it easier to just have your same, I mean, it's really like a, an old world kind of. Mm-hmm. going back to how people.

Stopped at like a mercantile. I'm a big retail nerd . So, you know, like if they, if they went to the mercantile and they were like, I need a, my fill my cloth sack up with oats and fill mm-hmm. and then there is no packaging and so, I was nervous the first time I went to shop. Zero Wastes, cuz I was like, I'm gonna do this wrong.

I'm not gonna be able to do it. And then each time I went I was like, Oh, I didn't realize they have Tabasco. Oh, I didn't realize they have this so gradually. And when I'm finished I just washed the bottle and, and put it in my little bag. And I take it and I, and it probably sounds totally granola to you.

[00:14:00] Jason Shephard: So for like those, For Tabasco? Yeah. Are you taking. The actual 

[00:14:04] Miranda Black: Tabasco bottle? No, because it has the little tiny, Oh, you know what? I'm wrong. I was wrong. I'm not right. It wasn't Tabasco, it was Worchester Shire sauce. That's a hard one to say. It was Worchester Shire sauce and. And so then also with Cheshire sauce, you buy such a huge one and it, it takes us, like we have it time for, from like the previous century kind of thing.

and then it gets all goody at the bottom. So I had a tiny little bottle of something. I'm like, You know what? I'd prefer to just use this little bottle of Cheshire sauce and it costs me like 50 cents as opposed to buying the big one. You can take any. Yes. As long as it's washed, it just has to be clean.

Okay. 

[00:14:47] Jason Shephard: That's really 

[00:14:48] Miranda Black: cool. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I shout out. Shout out to Unboxed Market. Woo woo . 

[00:14:55] Jason Shephard: Or the actual products that go into those bottles, or are they coming from like the name brand manufacturers? Yeah. Or is 

[00:15:01] Miranda Black: it. So she, when I did the interview with her, I was like, How do you do this? Like, what do you do?

And she said, it's a lot of relationship building that she has to go and say, All right, I have I'm doing this thing and are you on board? You know, and starting, And she says that it's, sometimes it will take, I think she's been in business for three years now. It could be. She's in her fourth year. But she says she'll have a conversation and they might not come back to her for a while because interestingly, when they're designing their packaging, they'll say, Well, we don't have that right now, because they're still using sort of an old, But when they have an opportunity to change how they distribute their stuff, She says, Some companies, not all of them, but some companies will come back and say, Listen, we're now, we're now on board with doing this.

Let's get our product into your store. So yeah, all of my shampoos, all my hand soaps, I mean all those hand soaps with the I don't know the pumps. Oh yeah. It's crazy. And you have to throw the pump in the garbage cuz it's got the metal thing around it and it doesn't go into the recycling bin, so.

Mm-hmm. , you know, it's, it's just saved us so much and her stuff is really high quality as well. 

[00:16:17] Jason Shephard: That's awesome. I never 

[00:16:18] Miranda Black: thought of that. I know right there always grocery shopping. I was at 

[00:16:22] Jason Shephard: Bob's Red Mill Grain store and I was proud of myself cuz I didn't buy the package I bought. 

[00:16:29] Miranda Black: The bin. Yeah. Yeah. You have a whole Bob's Red Mill store.

Like it's a bricks and mortar store for Bob's Red Mill. Now you're blowing my mind. It's . 

[00:16:41] Jason Shephard: It's from here, 

[00:16:42] Miranda Black: So it's from Portland, 

[00:16:43] Jason Shephard: The, Yeah, Milwaukee, Oregon, just right outside of it. Oh, okay. So yes, they're a little country store. 

[00:16:50] Miranda Black: Oh my gosh. I didn't even know that. I just think of them as like having a factory or something.

[00:16:54] Jason Shephard: Yeah, yeah. They, they have a little offline shop. Cool. Okay. So holidays, you are dressed up to the nines for it. 

[00:17:02] Miranda Black: Yeah, as you can tell, I'm a big fan of Christmas. Always have been. And we have a young child, so, we do the whole thing, you know, all out from the decorating in the garden to the tree, to the presence.

Mm-hmm. But that thing that's really shifted since we had a kid is the realization of how much stuff that I have to inventory. I think of all my products in my house's inventory, because I'm a retailer. , when would you do it? Oh my God, this is more inventory and I don't, you know, where am I gonna put it?

, and so that kind of blew my mind. Even the very first Christmas. He's a Christmas baby. He's born like a few, few days before Christmas. and that Christmas I was suddenly, our house was just filled with stuff and I, I was like, Oh my God, I want a place for everything. How am I gonna merchandise all this stuff in my house,

Um, and it was, it's sort of been a never ending cycle since that time. So when they turn one. All that infant stuff is leaving and now you're getting all the toddler stuff. And so every single birthday and Christmas, which is, it's a tsunami of gifts at that time of year. Mm-hmm. , it's, uh, yeah, I've, I try to implement little things with my family, like, um, Like, you know, no pla can we do no plastic this year be or can we do fewer things but more quality things because I would rather have less under the tree.

I know my kid might not, but I would have less under go get there. Less under the tree. But higher quality because then I can pass it on or I can sell it. And that to me, that, you know, being able to sell whatever it is or to pass it on to a donation center that's more important than many little things that are going to just fall apart or br the plastic's gonna snap and then you're just throwing them in the garbage.

Um, so. That, that's been a bit of a, I'm like, wow. Kids really do increase your volume. Volume by a lot. Do 

[00:19:21] Jason Shephard: you fill your garage warehouse, ? 

[00:19:23] Miranda Black: Oh, we're downtown. We don't have a garage. Okay. . I wish for a garage. We don't even, Yeah, we park on the street kind of thing. That's funny. So. Yeah, this year I'm probably gonna be sort of trying to steer my child into asking for more experiential experience type things like mm-hmm.

like, they aren't really into coding and Minecraft. Okay. Um, and so gift certificates to a coding class, coding classes are expensive. So Really, Oh. So I would like, you know, asking for those kinds of things. Or a mod from Minecraft, if any. If you don't have a kid under a certain age, you're not gonna know what these things are

But yeah, anybody who has a child probably knows exactly what a mod from Minecraft is. Mm-hmm. . So that's an online thing. then real world experiences would be stuff. Like physical. He loves rock climbing. Mm-hmm. . So there's like, um, a base camp Toronto, base camp climbing or something like that.

And we might put, you know, base camp on their list. Uh, and then one thing that we did as a family a few years ago, and I did, I don't even know if it exists anymore, a lot of. Fell by the wayside during the pandemic. Mm-hmm. , and I don't know if they're coming back like it was this thing where you, it's a, it's a real life.

Well, I wish I had a little, I wish I'd got it out, but it's a figurine of us holding our child as a baby. So you go into this, it was right off Queen Street, and you go into like, A booth, but it's really big. Mm-hmm. and it's got cameras, 360 cameras all around it, and it takes a 360 degree picture of you and then they turn it into a figurine.

That's awesome. It was, I, if I had it right now, I wish. And so I bought like matching pajamas for all of us. Of course. of course. And He was, I guess, a baby. Maybe it was his first like, um, one year old or maybe two year old, um, uh, Christmas. And so we're holding him, or I'm holding him and I thought, Oh my gosh, I wanna get this every year.

But then the pandemic happened and we couldn't do it, and yada, yada yada. So, we, I would like to see if they still exist. I would have to go Google it. Yeah, I'm gonna look it up. . Yeah, it's like 3D figurine, Christmas ornaments. I don't know, , you could get it as a Christmas ornament, but we got it as a little stand standalone.

Um, shelf. A shelf? Is that what shelf? ? It might be called a selfie. I can't remember. And yeah, we bring it out at Christmas. It's one of our Christmas ornaments. So I'm thinking of doing that again this year. 

[00:22:19] Jason Shephard: That's pretty cool. Okay, so you talked about your shopping list for your kid, experiential things.

Yeah. What else is on your shopping list this year? 

[00:22:27] Miranda Black: Well, I want, um, Oh man. Gonna sound like a huge nerd. There is this mending. I've seen it on Instagram and just before this I was trying to find it to see what the company is, and it might be reclaim, mending, but you get a whole, So I had the most incredible, so I sold the most incredible socks at my store and they ranged from $15.

To $125. They were very expensive socks, , just some nice socks. Yeah, they were beautiful. And some of them are like cashmere made in Scotland, you know, very cashmere and silk. Very fine, but they're starting to wear away at the heel. Mm-hmm. . And I was like, Ah, I don't wanna throw the, I really don't wanna just throw these out.

And then lo and behold, on my Instagram, It came, but you can put your, I don't know how it works. You put your sock into, into it and you, it helps you mend where the heel is. Mm-hmm. , and I'm like, Oh, I could do that in the cold winter months. Uh, I, so I would really like that kit. Mm-hmm. . There is, This independent clothing company in Halliburton, and this is way up north, so we're kind of north.

We're probably similar to similar latitude as as you are. Mm-hmm. we're kind of the same as, Oh no, maybe a little higher than New York, but Halliburton is another three and a half hours from here, so it's a d. Temperate zone, like it's gonna be 10 degrees cooler there than it is here, and in the middle of nowhere there's a clothing store called the Halliburton Clothing Company, and she hand makes underwear.

and it is the coolest underwear. And I, I bought one just to see what it was like, and I love it. It's super comfy. And so I probably want more of that. Experiential stuff. I'm into skincare, so I would love like a, from a spa, I would love gift certificate to a spa. Uh, it's like November 1st. I have not got my Christmas list.

We have Halloween candy all over the place here. What else do I like? Oh, I always love jewelry. Mm-hmm. and my partner knows that about me. So, he tends to go to, made you look jewelry here in Toronto and Yeah, they make the jewelry on site and. It can ra, you know, that ones also can range from, you know, $35 up to $10,000.

So I, uh mm-hmm. , I certainly prob, I certainly won't be in the upper end of that. So a 

[00:25:09] Jason Shephard: lot of these handmade stores, I mean, they're very niche, very specialty. Yeah. Um, how did you find these places? 

[00:25:15] Miranda Black: Well, I think because, I'm a retail because I had a store. Mm-hmm. , I would often, and I had a cool, like my store was pretty cool.

The clothing was very it was like a luxury boutique. So people would come in and they're wearing something cool and unique and interesting. So a lot of it be like, Oh wow, where did you get that? Find it that way. Walking around. I live right off Queen West, and Queen West is one of our big shopping a big shopping district here in Toronto.

So just walking down the street, I'll window shop. And then I guess my algorithm kind of knows that I like unique and trusting things, so it'll show me, shows me stuff. 

[00:25:57] Jason Shephard: Yeah. Okay. My algorithm, , 

[00:26:02] Miranda Black: it's, it's, it's a real thing. And I. I just read actually in the paper it was an American paper, probably the New York Times, and it said that the US since the pandemic has increased their, like downtown experience areas.

So for a long time, I guess the downtowns were just for businesses and then they would be a, a wasteland at night. And I guess now there's shops turning up. So I think that, I think this. Hopefully something that is turning around that people want to go out and shop and look and feel and and touch, because.

And I've been burned online thinking, Oh, that looks really great. Then you get it and you're like, it doesn't feel anything. Like, I thought it was gonna, it doesn't look when I wear it. It doesn't look like it. And so I think experiences like experiencing the product. Mm-hmm. people, there's something about us.

I don't know what it, you know, we just like the tactile experience of, of, um, checking the things out before we buy them. So yeah, 

[00:27:11] Jason Shephard: some of our photography is so good now. It can kind of make things look a lot better than they 

[00:27:15] Miranda Black: turn out to be. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then I get, you know, I get inspiration from Instagram, I follow a lot of makers, so, Again, something that I wasn't really aware of before I started the podcast was there is a strong maker community.

It's really strong in the US of people in small towns, a lot of women, making the most beautiful, handcrafted things. And you know, if you, if you start following. One, then they can, their posts can lead you to another. And, you know, I would, I'm, I am of the mind stop following. You know, h and m doesn't need your business.

H and m Shane, or whatever it's called, Shean doesn't need you to follow them. So take them off your, get them outta your algo and get things that really are being made by people in your, in your area. Portland would. Just like teaming, teaming with makers, I assume. 

[00:28:22] Jason Shephard: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot. They even had a, this was before the pandemic, but they had a downtown shop that had just local, locally made things That was pretty interesting to go and see what all the people are doing.

[00:28:34] Miranda Black: The shocking thing sometimes is how, how much more expensive it is when it's made. Oh, yeah, yeah. . And that gives us a really great idea of how, in how deflated the price of stuff made. by people overseas being paid pennies. It kind of is a big shot. You're like, Oh, wow. That's, that's actually how much it costs to make something.

Mm-hmm. . Holy, holy moly. It's a good remi, even if you don't buy, it's just sort of a good reminder that it's sort of on the backs of people who might not be making anything. Mm-hmm. , very much, 

[00:29:12] Jason Shephard: very true. A lot of. The cheaper products that we've gotten used to so much over the years. Not always the most sustainable in manufacturing.

[00:29:20] Miranda Black: Yeah. For the, yeah, for the people. There's the, yeah, there's the three components of sustainability. It's the environment, the humans behind it, and then the, the materials involved. And those, those three things, you can't always get those three things, but if you try for one out of the three and then maybe.

Step in the right direction. It's a step in the right direction. Yeah. Oh, you know what, Something else I've, I, we just remembered that I was gonna get for, um, that I wanna put on my Christmas list is a product that I heard on your show was the, it's not available in Canada, but I'm gonna look for, uh, an equivalent.

It's the, um, the Garden Indoor, the North Garden. Yes. 

[00:30:07] Jason Shephard: That's a cool product. 

[00:30:09] Miranda Black: I want one so badly 

[00:30:11] Jason Shephard: as lettuce grow as a company and farm stand is, I think the name of the product. 

[00:30:14] Miranda Black: Yeah. Not available here. No. Maybe we should come available. Farm stand. We need you. 

[00:30:22] Jason Shephard: Yeah, those are pretty cool. Yeah, that was a funny episode.

Yeah. With the lady talking about the plant babies. 

[00:30:29] Miranda Black: Yeah, . I listened to it with my, with my kiddo and they were like, I want plant babies, . I'm like, Well, let me go online. Let me find out. And yeah, it wasn't, it's not available. And it says, you know, put your name on the list for when it is available, but we'll see.

Not gonna be this Christmas. There's littler ones. You can get littler ones from other companies. , but it looks, I like to buy sort of like the best of the thing in order for it to last and et cetera. So yeah, the only thing I was concerned about was whether the pods are plastic. I wasn't sure, but I seem to recall doing a little bit of digging and they're, they're moving to a biodegradable pod.

Okay. 

[00:31:16] Jason Shephard: That's a cool one. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So one last question. Mm-hmm. , um, what advice would you give to brands as they're, you know, in light of what we talked about for sustainability moving forward, a lot of the changes, people going to experiential sort of experiences. Yeah, Yeah. Um, so what advice would you give to brands who are kind of in that online space or even brick and.

Right. And what they should think about over the next, you know, year or 

[00:31:43] Miranda Black: two, like, um, people who are sustainability, curious kind of thing. There we go. . Um, I would, Transparency, that's the number, the number one thing that people who are real, who are serious about, uh, sustainability is they want to know. They wanna, they're really looking for the truth.

I think that the truth is a, a difficult word because you know, what is the truth, et cetera. But, um, They people want to be as close to the truth of where the product comes from as they possibly can be. So don't greenwash me, don't tell me this is sustainable. Oh, it's sustainable cotton. And then you find out that it uses more water than the regular denim that they're using.

Mm-hmm. . So I would say, That being transparent, it seems to me from my experience and the experience of the businesses that I deal with and the the customers that I have, my clients, mm-hmm. that being transparent and truthful with your clients is huge currency. Because they will come back to you. And I used, I did that in my own, my own business.

When I couldn't get something for somebody or if something came in not as ordered, I went, I bent over backwards to be truthful with my clients because, That's really, that becomes like a friend almost. I mean, I had a bricks and mortar business, so it's easily, more easily to be a friend with somebody when you're, when you're not a hundred percent online.

Mm-hmm. . Um, but I think, you know, personal notes, it's very, it's a difficult retail landscape, so people are squeezed for time. But instead of reaching for clients that you don't have, nurture the clients that you do have, So spend, I spent every year, my employees would be like, Why do you do this? It is such a huge time commitment.

I would write personal Christmas cards to every single person who shopped in my. That year, . And they were like, everybody who I had the address and I, I had quite a number of addresses. And my store was different because it was a tailor shop. So they would, you know, they would buy a suit or a shirt and then we would tailor it for them.

I would have to get their contact information. Mm-hmm. . But if you're, if you're online or on Instagram, you can personally send a DM to, to everyone. Who purchased or who have, If you have too many people, maybe you send everyone who purchased over $500 mm-hmm. , or, you know, you set the threshold for what is comfortable for you, for what you're able to do, as opposed to putting out a real hoping it'll get 20, 20,000, you know, likes and maybe 1% of that will buy from your store.

Maybe it's like throwing mud at a. But if you, if people have shopped with you, find out how did they like it? How, what was their experience? Not everyone will get back to you, but that's, but at least you have a hard lead. It's not a cold lead. And, and then you're nurturing your client, your client base.

[00:35:01] Jason Shephard: Very good. You know, they are the real hero. 

[00:35:03] Miranda Black: Yes. Yeah, , and I love it. I, it's rare I don't see people doing like I leaned in so hard to customer service. That I find it, it shocks me when I go into a store and people don't say hi right away or try to crack up a conversation because that's they're there, they're right there in your store.

And they came, they walked in for a reason. A really great book to read is, uh, Hug Your Customer. Do you know that book by, I've heard the name of it. That book was my Bible for customer service. The guy who wrote that book. Is from Mitchell's, which is a men's clothing store, or men maybe men's end lady's clothing store in, um, on the east coast somewhere.

Mm-hmm. , Connecticut, or I don't know, some of a wealthy enclave of somewhere and Right. His customer service was really top notch and I thought, Let me try it. Let me see what it's like to, you know, quote unquote hug your customer to make them feel like they, like you have a relationship and Yeah, I think that people respond to that and they, they come back because they feel seen.

That's mm-hmm. what they say nowadays instead of, you know, hug your customer. It's like, see your customer. Make your customers feel seen, . . 

[00:36:28] Jason Shephard: Awesome. That was really, really fun. 

thank you so much for inviting me on your show. 

[00:36:32] Jason Shephard: Yeah, thanks for coming on.

This was really, really 

[00:36:34] Miranda Black: informative. Yeah, it was fun. Have a great day.

That was Jason Shepherd and the real heroes of e-commerce. You can find his podcast wherever you podcast. Thank you so much, Jason. That was a lot of fun. And now I have my Christmas list started. I stay subscribed so you can listen to the next episode of what's this place. I'll see you next time.