Isabel Slone: Why Isn't More Clothing Made in Canada?

Why Isn’t More Clothing Made In Canada? 

Well today we are going to talk to someone who actually wrote an article with that exact title…you can google "Why Isn’t More Clothing Made in Canada?" and the first result you should get is a Chatelaine story with that exact title by Isabel Slone who writes for The NY Times, The Globe and Mail, Macleans etc and today I’m going to pick her brain about Made in Canada.

if we really want to "Shop Local" and "Buy Canadian" are there any clothing brands who can genuinely claim to be Made In Canada?

Well today we’re gonna find out and Isabel Slone is going to help us do it.

So, who is Isabel Slone and What actually is Made In Canada anymore?

Enjoying the podcast? I am fiercely independent, and rely on listeners like you to help me stick around.
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Transcript

Isabel Slone: Why Isn't More Clothing Made In Canada?

[00:00:00] Miranda Black (2): Okay, let's go back way back to 1999. You might be watching this new show, the Sopranos, and you're shocked that TV can actually be good. Maybe you went to see the matrix last night, that was released in 1999. Eminem hits the airwaves and the real slim shady stood up. What. So it's 1999 it's a while ago, but it's not that long ago. We're going to go shopping for back to school clothing. Or if you're not in school, we're going to get you a new fall wardrobe. 

Now, would it surprise you to discover that 70% of the clothing you were looking through as you shop is made in Canada? And 200,000 of us are employed in the garment industry? It's not retail, it's not the people selling the clothes. It's just making the clothes on the racks. That blew my mind. 70%! Now I knew that Canada had a worldwide reputation for making incredible garments. That's why most of the men's suits I sold in my store were made by Samuelson, Empire, Jack Victor. These are heritage suit makers and pro tip: they're cheaper because there's no duty. It's not because the quality is inferior. Or Lipson shirts, same thing, an extremely well-made men's shirt that can absolutely compete with almost anything coming out of Europe. So I knew that we made excellent garments. I knew we once had a very strong workforce, but what blew me away is how recently the demise actually happened. 

So, why isn't more clothing made in Canada?! Well today, we're going to talk to someone who actually wrote an article with that exact title. You can Google, "why isn't more clothing made in Canada" and the first result you should get is this Chatelaine story by Isabel Slone, who writes for the New York Times, the Globe and Mail, Maclean's. And today I'm going to pick her brain about Canada losing such a rich industry, an employment powerhouse, not to mention the international reputation that having designers like Alfred Sung, Simon Chang, Linda Lundstrom and Kingi Carpenter, who I interviewed in season one of this podcast, where she shares her experience of being a Canadian designer

right at the nexus of this implosion. She has a fascinating insider perspective. 

Now I will say we do have a design industry here in Canada. In fact, you can go to your closet and take out something that's a Canadian brand and it may say on the label "designed in Canada", not made in Canada. So, yes, we have Joe Fresh, which has a terrible reputation for worker exploitation overseas, not to mention toxic fabrics and all sorts of shenanigans you would never get away with if you used Canadian 

labour., Aritzia is Canadian. Pink tartan. Knix. But none of these garments are made here. 

So if we really want to shop local and buy Canadian, Are there any clothing brands who can genuinely claim to be made in Canada? Well today, we're going to find out and Isabel Slone is going to help us do it. So who is Isabel Slone and what is "made in Canada"? 

Hi!

[00:03:29] Isabel Slone: Cat 

in the background, looking like a little freak. 

[00:03:32] Miranda Black: Oh, I don't even 

[00:03:32] Isabel Slone: Oh, you.

don't see that. Okay. 

 So, I had a retail store that can Canadian made, it wasn't held up as a standard. Like it was like, oh, well, I guess I'll buy the Canadian made suit or the Canadian made shirt. but it's actually, it was great quality and I was having to constantly sell that to people and, and be like, "The standard is really high". And my intro, I go briefly into the demise of the Canadian garment industry. And at first it seems like death by a thousand cuts, but your article synthesized it into three main 

[00:04:10] Miranda Black: blows. And I wanna get into that, but first, I'm really interested in how you got into fashion, but more specifically into slow fashion or sustainable fashion. 

[00:04:22] Isabel Slone: So I come at it because my like, growing up... so my mom's a seamstress that's like her profession. So I grew

up in a house where like making your own clothes was quite normal. And. Then, you know, you grow up and you realize that like not everybody had that experience. So I just always was like in love with fashion because my mom, you know, just going to my mom's sewing room and just like seeing all the awesome stuff that she was working on.

And you know, having her like make my clothes as a kid, too I basically was like, can I have this? And I could just sort of like, , ask her to make anything I wanted. And so I had 

that like creativity and freedom from a. 

[00:05:01] Miranda Black: Was she, was she working for someone? Did she work for 

[00:05:04] Isabel Slone: no, she's like, self-employed, she does a lot of bridal alterations now. 

Right? Which isn't like her passion. She loves like pattern making and like the technical

aspect and making things from scratch. But 

that's where the business is, is mostly alterations specifically. 

So, 

[00:05:18] Miranda Black: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:05:18] Isabel Slone: Yeah. So that's how

I got into fashion.

So I was always just in love with it, like pouring over

my mom's, like old fashioned history books and stuff. And I think because I've always been interested in thrifting and vintage that it. just kind of like naturally drew me towards sustainable fashion Like I was ne I was always interested in finding unique pieces.

Never really like, and yeah. And not spending a lot of money That was like the best way to do it was shopping secondhand. I was also always interested in the environment and environmentalism in general as well. Like 

my undergrad degree is an environmental studies.

[00:05:55] Miranda Black: Oh, interesting. 

[00:05:57] Isabel Slone: just those two, like personal 

interests, sort of coalesced. 

[00:06:01] Miranda Black: when did, do you know when you first discovered how destructive might be? Um, a bit of an inflammatory word, but I'm gonna use it. How destructive the fashion industry is to the planet. Is that something you always knew or is, was there a revelation moment?

[00:06:18] Isabel Slone: mean the fashion industry wasn't that destructive to the planet until like, 15-20 years ago. And also I think there's a lot of like weird misogyny couched in everyone criticizing the fashion industry as opposed to like the fossil fuel industry and like the chem, the agrichemical industry.

And so I, I think the fashion industry takes a lot of heat. That's like, I mean, it absolutely deserves to be criticized. And there are many things that it needs to improve on seriously, but there are a lot of other industries that are also causing a lot of damage that aren't directly related to, 

Feminine, coded interests.

So. 

[00:07:04] Miranda Black: Yeah, yeah, 

yeah. Okay.

So your article, why isn't more clothing made in Canada?

 Did that come out of your, a place of, so back to the store, I was able to find like suits, shirts, ties. That was

easy for me to find, but a really great men's t-shirt

Made in Canada.

With Canadian made everything that was harder, much harder to find, or,

you know, made in Canada underwear, like all that made in Canada socks. A lot of it is designed in

Canada, but it doesn't mean very much to me if it's designed in Canada, but then it's all shipped from over overseas and it's overseas labor.

So when did, and I had no idea that so little was made in Canada for women's wear how did you come to wonder why isn't more clothing made in Canada? 

[00:07:58] Isabel Slone: well, that's actually exactly how the story came together. So I was assigned the story by an editor at chat lane who actually had gone looking for made in Canada socks and had like a really difficult time finding them and started to wonder, Hmm, why can't I find. And because I'm like a, a fashion journalist, they came to me and asked me to investigate this.

And I thought, yep, that's certainly up my alley. 

[00:08:26] Miranda Black: Yeah. 

[00:08:27] Isabel Slone: to like, take the assignment on and, you know, obviously synthesize this like incredibly complicated phenomenon into the most 

readable way possible. 

[00:08:39] Miranda Black: Yeah. Yeah. It, it is very, I mean, when I was closing the store, I was telling clients I'm gonna do a podcast on the demise of the Canadian garment industry. And everyone's like, oh, do it. But they would just say it's China, it's China.

But I knew it had to be much more nuanced than that. It's not just like, it just happened one day, everything was shipped 

[00:09:02] Isabel Slone: Yeah, well, I mean, it's not China's fault. Like it's companies who don't wanna pay labor for their products. And so they always go to wherever, like the China's not even the cheapest country to get clothing made in 

[00:09:17] Miranda Black: Exactly. 

[00:09:18] Isabel Slone: URAS El Salvador, Bangla dash so basically there are like, Massive

garment industries in these countries where, north American companies can pay like pennies to the workers.

But I mean, yeah. It's incredibly complicated and it really boils it, I think when you said that it's death by a thousand cuts, you're absolutely right. So to just, I mean, wildly oversimplify it, I think the combination of globalization, corporate greed and over consumption kind of swirled together to create this very toxic stew. which started with like NAFTA, Canada signed the north American trade agreement in 1994, eliminating tariffs on goods made in north America. So that just made it cheaper to, 

you know, buy and manufacture things in other countries. 

That was kind of like the beginning, but it didn't, the real shift happened in 2005 when Canada eliminated import quotas on all apparel.

So it used to be that a company, if they wanted to bring in more than a certain, the allowed amount of clothing into the country to sell it, they had to pay like duties on it. And. Basically Canada got rid of that. So all of a sudden there's like this unlimited amount of like foreign made clothing. Coming into the country.

Yeah. So Canada used to have CanCan rules, but for clothing basically. And then all of a sudden they didn't, and this is kind of going on at the exact same time that fast fashion begins to go global. Like I remember H and M opened in the Eaton center in 2004. I remember in 2006, you know, being in high school and like.

Going on a field trip to Toronto, from bell bell, and being so excited to go to H and M for the first time thinking it was the coolest thing in the entire world. And honestly, it was really cool. Like it was very unique and revelatory to be able to get these like cutting edge high fashion. Items were very cheap because what was available to most people at the time, people forget how recent this was, but you had your mall stores, you had your, your Susie sheer, your Reitmans, your Northern reflections, your 

[00:11:35] Miranda Black: Cotton Jenny 

[00:11:36] Isabel Slone: Le Chatto and these are all Canadian brands that are making quite a bit of their stuff in Canada.

 These places their clothing wasn't that cheap, like a sweater, a pair of jeans at the gap was about 50 bucks back then. My parents couldn't afford that kind of thing. Now, a pair of jeans at the gap, you can get it on sale for like, 

20 like $17. so clothing is one of the very, I think it's actually the only good that has gone down in price.

Over the last 20 years. And I think we need to, you know, question why that is anyways. I was going somewhere with that which is that, you know, so the mall brands were actually pretty good quality. But you know, maybe the design wasn't as cutting edge. It wasn't exciting.

We lived in a world where, you know, fashion shows happened and then the clothes didn't get to the

stores. a season later fast fashion, basically like implodes

this entire system and makes things more immediate. And all of a sudden people want things now and fast fashion can produce that. So, I mean, yeah. We just end

up in a world where like the speed and the site, the FA the speed of the fashion cycle is just going like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

And it's, you know, it's good for their business, right? They're making a lot of money doing it. Growth is always that north star that businesses are reaching for under capitalism. And so they just continue to grow and grow and grow until. 

Everything else around them. 

That is,

[00:13:11] Miranda Black: Is dad 

[00:13:11] Isabel Slone: exactly. 

[00:13:13] Miranda Black: yeah, 

Because I'm a huge detail nerd. Can I ask you sort of the difference between the NAFTA blow and the 2005? Like for someone who is like, explain it to me, like I'm five kind of things. 

[00:13:31] Isabel Slone: Okay, well, first of all, I'm not like a policy expert. This is information

that I got from the, yeah, this is, this is information that

I've gleaned from. I don't remember his last name, but his name is Robert who like is the head of the Canadian apparel Federation. He is definitely the guy who can

 Explain these specific differences from my non policy expert perspective.

It's like NAFT is north America, right? So it's not that cheaper to make things in the states than it is here. It is in Mexico, but also Mexico was. A pretty developed country at the time. So the, the big difference is like going to countries where, yeah, the currency, like the value of like labor and currency is just like very, 

I don't know what the right word is.

Low.

[00:14:22] Miranda Black: Right. Yeah. Yeah. so in 2005, that's when, if a t-shirt comes over and the t-shirt is $10, there are zero duty, which means tax 

zero on That garment. So they just send it over 

[00:14:42] Isabel Slone: well, basically, yeah, companies were used to paying.

I don't know if penalties is the right word, but yeah, they're used to paying like a certain amount in order to run their businesses

here and import and because they're still making a profit they're okay with doing that all of a sudden the profits zoom upward because they're not paying those penalties anymore.

And they're able to, bring as much stuff in and grow their profits even 

more. So. Of course they're gonna do that. 

[00:15:12] Miranda Black: right. So. that would be like that's the, that was the, would be the final, the cut that hurt, hurt the mow. That was the death blow.

[00:15:21] Isabel Slone: Um, yeah. I mean, you could say that that's what Robert at the Canadian apparel Federation sort Of synthesized it to me as I definitely wouldn't have like, come to that conclusion on my own. I probably would've specifically blamed it on fast fashion and corporate greed and 

over consumption and that.

kind of thing.

But it, I think it is a really interesting, it's interesting to note how much policy actually does play a role in these things. Yeah, when you're a culture journalist who, isn't really looking at laws, you kind of try to find. Possible like reasons for various phenomena. Why could this be?

And like a lot of the time, the answer actually is because some 

politician decided to give his cronies a tax break. 

[00:16:07] Miranda Black: It was protected, right? Like it was, the industry was protected. It was like, it

had a fence build around it. And then the fence was just taken away. And of course, they're not gonna wanna hire a Canadian for $18 an hour or whatever it was at that, at that time, they're gonna wanna hire someone for $113 a month.

[00:16:26] Isabel Slone: Exactly. I mean, there, like there's arguments, for and against protectionism. I'm not really

gonna Wade there, but yeah. 

[00:16:34] Miranda Black: Okay. So.

 there seems to be maybe a little bit more interest and a little bit more resurgence of this industry. You leave us on a little bit of a hopeful note. in the AR in the article. And I have actually talked to a week after this

episode airs, I talked to Blonie apparel and. They do.

They're making 100% of their garment here in Canada from the textile to the thread, the tags, the whole thing. So there is a resurgence. What did you find? Is, is it strong? Is it floundering? Does it need our

help? What can we do? 

[00:17:10] Isabel Slone: I mean, it's tricky, right? Because I think there is a real appetite for made in Canada, but at the same time, people

don't really wanna like pay the extra prices. People don't realize how artificially inflated the price of clothing is. So I don't, I, I'm not like a huge sewer, but I do know how to do it.

And a couple years ago I made a skirt because I couldn't find anything. Like I had

an idea of what I wanted and I couldn't find anything like it in the store. And so the fabric and the lining cost a hundred dollars and then there's the labor on top of that, it took me like two days to finish.

So priced out at like whatever the minimum wage was at the

time. Skirt cost like $300. And I mean, there's lots of skirts out there that you can pay $300 for that.

the person making it. Wasn't definitely wasn't paid 

300. 

[00:18:08] Miranda Black: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:18:09] Isabel Slone: but that's a thing people hear $300 and think, oh, that's You know, an unconscionable amount of money to pay for something when I'm just like, I don't know. I think $20 is an unconscionable amount to pay for

something

[00:18:22] Miranda Black: Yeah. Yeah, it's a, yeah. , but people, I mean, people just don't have

that kind of money, especially as we're heading into sort of

a. A bit of a tough time for most people, most people that I know 

everyone's going through a harder time financially. So how, how are you supposed to say, okay, well, my food Bill's going up.

And so here I'll, I'll,

save a little bit on my clothing by buying it. . I would don't wanna give them any air time, but any X, Y, Z,

it's not

on the, It's not on the consumer. I don't know. Is it on the consumer? Is it on the, do you just 

save your money 

[00:18:59] Isabel Slone: I think you're a hundred percent right. That yeah, there needs to be affordable options for people. , there always has been, but I think the amount of like entitlement consumers have to clothing 

has absolutely gone off the rails. 

Like. 

[00:19:19] Miranda Black: what do you, what, explain that?

[00:19:22] Isabel Slone: Yeah, absolutely. So, yes, the answer is buy less clothing.

You spend less money on clothing. What do you have in your closet? What do you need? I mean, obviously there are people in poverty, but in terms of the audience of this podcast, is there anybody listening to this who really can genuinely say that they don't have enough clothing in their closet?

Stop buying shit. Like it's, it's it. . To me, it's insulting for somebody to say, well, I need to buy something. It's like, um, actually you probably already have a lot of stuff. And like, maybe you need to reevaluate what's in your closet. And not even to say like, oh, shop your closet. Like that kind of cliche, like go like go through everything.

Get rid of what is not working for. You make a list of what you need, buy what you need at a price point you can afford and actually wear it. Don't just go through life mindlessly, like buying things and, not really considering it. So the, yeah, I've, I've come up with a philosophy called intuitive shopping, which is based on, the concept of intuitive eating where, which is, you know, It's very like anti-D diet culture, and you're just supposed to like, listen to your body and like, it tells you what you wanna eat.

And, yeah. It, it just, it, it, I think it's the purpose is to help, rid people of ,

whatever, wild ideas have been like implanted in them about food, but

I very much feel that same way about consumption because I personally am not. I don't think I'm not against, like, if somebody buys a piece, a pair of pants at a fast fashion store, that's fine.

If you're gonna wear them and get used out of them, that kind of thing. The problem comes when people, you know, buy things and then don't actually use them and then, they're like, oh, well I need more. And that kind of thing. 

So. 

[00:21:21] Miranda Black: Yeah. 

[00:21:22] Isabel Slone: yeah, try to reevaluate your relationship with your closet 

and like buy pieces that you, that fit well that you love that you can afford.

 The best

part of intuitive shopping is that everybody makes up their own rules. Like for

some people they're like, well, I, I love, I only wanna shop secondhand and I love natural fabrics. So I'm gonna prioritize that for somebody else. It might be like,

well, you know, I love a polyester pair of pants but I also really love designer clothing. So, you know, once a year I'm gonna splurge on a Gucci, something 

[00:21:58] Isabel Slone: everybody's approach is going to be different, but 

it's just, it's essentially just about you know, being 

mindful. Yeah.

[00:22:06] Miranda Black: Yeah. Yeah. After your did that article change your ideas or change your mindset of shopping more made in Canada? Did you have any kind of , did it shift you? 

[00:22:20] Isabel Slone: Well, I, so, yeah, so my mom did work in the garment industry in Toronto, in the eighties, she was a pattern maker at club Monaco. 

[00:22:28] Miranda Black: Oh, wow.

[00:22:29] Isabel Slone: Like she'll visit me here and be like, I worked in that building and was my boss. , so, you know, she has all of these incredible memories of what it was actually like at the time.

And, So I primarily shop

secondhand. Uh, it's

just, it's what I like to do. I just, I love finding treasures. 

I love.

[00:22:47] Miranda Black: I love following your Instagram and seeing your treasures. 

[00:22:50] Isabel Slone: I love. Yeah. I just

love finding pieces that I think are really special. And I, I always notice when something is made in Canada and that does it, that does sort of orient me in a positive direction towards the piece.

, that will make me more likely to think, oh, you know, this is special cuz it's, you know, really a Relic from an era that doesn't totally exist anymore. So I'm gonna treat this with care and that kind of thing,

But, you know, that doesn't mean I'm not going to pick up something that like was made in China as if I like the piece.

And if I think it's special and I think that I'll wear it and it, and I think it looks good on me then I'm still happy to incorporate that into my wardrobe 

sorry, what was the question? I guess? 

[00:23:33] Miranda Black: just like if your mindset shifted after the article, um, 

but you already had a mother, you had a history 

[00:23:41] Isabel Slone: Yeah. Yeah. I 

think 

[00:23:42] Miranda Black: the industry. 

[00:23:43] Isabel Slone: it made me, it didn't shift my mindset, but it did, open my eyes to how much we have lost because I, when I read that, like in the nineties, 70% of the clothing that people owned was made in Canada, I thought, how could this 

be like, 

[00:24:02] Miranda Black: It blew my mind. 

[00:24:03] Isabel Slone: that, that I, I almost didn't believe it, but then I kind of thought back to, you know, when I was a kid and I was like, well, yeah. 

[00:24:11] Miranda Black: Yeah. 

[00:24:12] Isabel Slone: And also, another thing that was lost is that the garment industry had really strong unions in place. 

[00:24:19] Miranda Black: Mm-hmm 

[00:24:20] Isabel Slone: Joe Miran remembers, he's like, you know, it was a bunch of like Hungarian guys, smoking and like meeting and these

like offices on Spadina and there was, Yeah. there was even like a housing.

Affordable housing built, named after like a garment industry, union guy. So I think with the, you know, the resurgence of labor activism and unions, like if we can bring that back in any sort of significant way, then I think, I mean, , so made in Canada, Canadian apparel manufac, it will always exist in some capacity.

, I don't think it will ever like return to the strength that it was. that it had in the eighties and nineties, but, , yeah, I think if, , unions gain strength in our culture in all industries, then we'll stand a 

better chance of protecting what we

have. 

[00:25:16] Miranda Black: Yeah. That struck me as well. The sadness of what Canada lost,

Just the designers that we have missed out on over the past 20 years, because they would've had the support of, that protection that fence around them to

help them grow and maybe have a chance

here.

There's that sort of sadness of what we're, what we're denied of. And then the strong workforce, like 200,000 people being employed in. The garment industry, not retail, not like the sellers,

it just making the

products and that being slashed by 2015, to 20,000. And I don't know what it is

today. You, you know,

[00:26:01] Isabel Slone: it's Yeah. it's tough because they are really thankless jobs, right? Like most people, if you go to Ryerson and you study fashion, you don't wanna spend The rest of your life, like 10 hours a day, to a sewing, just at a sewing machine doing hems and sewing seams together. That's understandable.

So it's, it is work that is primarily done by an aging immigrant workforce. unless skilled trades become a more highly compensated, profession. 

It doesn't really stand a chance. 

[00:26:37] Miranda Black: right. Yeah, so. 

what is shop local? what

does it mean to you now and , if you could have that little bit of influence on somebody 

what would your words of advice be to help rekindle or at least support made in Canada?

Moving forward.

[00:27:01] Isabel Slone: Absolutely. I think that, yeah, I mean, what

shop local or made in Canada means to me is that i, guess it's about independent retailers and finding the stores and the labels that resonate with you, that you, you know, feel a personal connection with that you want to support.

 If it's a store, not necessarily everything is gonna be made in Canada, or if it's a label, you might not necessarily be buying it at a store. You might be buying it online, that kind of thing. , so there's a lot of, you know, different ways to approach it. But yeah, I think people just could stand to be a little bit more, , just conscious about what they purchase and, try to develop a personal relationship.

With what you put on your body, cuz it is really special and it 

is who you are. So 

why 

[00:27:51] Miranda Black: I really liked how you said that,

you know, anyone who's listening to this podcast and I even said, you know, the people around me are like, oh, 

my food. Bill's going up, or this is going up. But they all.

Do have the capability

to spend less on, you know, going outta business sales or, um, an off price store going to an off price store to buy their stuff, because that is. It's built on the backs of 

slaves in Bangladesh and all the countries that you listed earlier.

and they do have this opportunity to invest less in slave labor and invest more in made in Canada or made by people.

Who are being paid a reasonable wage? 

[00:28:42] Isabel Slone: Yeah. And I mean, I'm certainly not 

saying like, you know, you should never shop again. 

Like you should never acquire another piece of clothing ever again, but I think, there's just a bit of a cognitive dissonance in terms of like acquisition versus what people actually 

have. 

 The great question that I'm trying to like conceive of writing a book about is how

to merge that, get rid of that cognitive dissonance. 

So, 

[00:29:08] Miranda Black: Well, I, I really wanna thank you for your time. I love how you just took that hugely complex issue and made it so, digestible for people to understand.

And

I learned stuff and I'd been in the Canadian, fashion industry for 15 years and I learned a ton from that article. So I really appreciate your writing.

Canadian fashion and the garment industry.

[00:29:34] Isabel Slone: Thank you so much for reading. I really appreciate 

it.

[00:29:36] Miranda Black: All right, take care. Have a great day. 

[00:29:39] Isabel Slone: too. Bye.

 you can read Isabelle's entire article just by Googling. Why is. It more clothing made in Canada. . And then I'm going to ask you to continue asking that question of yourself the next time you're looking to beef up your wardrobe. 

And remember how I I found it really hard to find men's basics like t-shirts Henleys, that kind of stuff manufactured in Well, Blondie apparel. Who's been making clothing for women since 2014. We are considering adding a men's t-shirt to their collection. And I'm going to really say considering. They're not going to do it unless they know they have the support of 

People because manufacturing clothing in Canada competing. Against all the forces, we just went over with Isabelle. It is incredibly hard. 

[00:30:24] Miranda Black (2): What advice would you have for someone who wants to shift their production home? Bring, bring it home. 

[00:30:30] Michelle: It's like, yeah.

It's yes. Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it do it. 

[00:30:35] Miranda Black (2): Why, why are you so, 

[00:30:36] Michelle: it just because it's just better for everyone and it's better for the environment. It's better for the consumer. It's just, it's a, it's the right choice for sure. If you can do it, then you should do it.. I mean, it's going to be painful also. I have a little bit of advice in that department just brace yourself. Cause it's crazy, but it's worth it in the end. And it's so nice for us. , I feel like we're so proud to be able to say that everything from our thread to her, you know, finished product is Canadian.

 So it's a great feeling and it's worth the struggle to get there. 

Please join me the next time. When I sit down and dish hard on designed in Canada with Brody and Michelle, the owners of Blondie apparel, 100% made in Canada. 

Just like this podcast. See you next time.